Canadian election - Mr. Soul - you out there?

 
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cricket52



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Location: northern Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:43 am    Post subject: Canadian election - Mr. Soul - you out there? Reply with quote

Today Harper breaks his own law (with excuses of course) and goes to the GG to call an election. Parliaments is dysfunctional (duh - he made sure it was).

He will probably get another minority. His plan is to fracture the liberal party to the point of crippling them permanently by splitting the votes among the other parties.

His scandal ridden government is starting to catch the eye of more Canadians and by calling this election he can stall some of it. He also ensures that four critical by-elections don't take place next week (he would probably have lost three of them).

He has from the beginning of the Reform (aka Progressive Conservative) election win used Republic party trainers to set his agenda.

1% of Canadians officially belong to a party. 90+% couldn't care less what is going on in Ottawa unless it affects them directly.

Harper's negative and vicious ads targeting the opposition are at this point disgusting to most Cnd's, however, negative ads work, the Republicans are proof of that.

He is suing the Liberal party for a statement made in parliament about one of the scandals. The man is a consumate liar. During testimony in the trial a political scientist suggested Harper has a dictatorial style of leadership. He upped the lawsuit.

The man is slowing eroding all things Canadian with the help of his Republican buddies.

I know change is inevitable, we can't go back to the good old days. All I see in our future is no more Proportional Representation, continued minority (dysfunctional) government. MP's don't work for their constituents in his party, they work for Harper. It's about power and heaven help the public servant who disagrees or runs afoul of him. He is suing Elections Canada for heaven sakes.

I am working this election because I cannot stomach the garbage or stench of this fight. I already know who will win our riding, that goodness it isn't a PC. Elections Canada is known and utilized worldwide for it's non-partisan approach to democracy. It's nice to work in the local office knowing that Harpers name isn't mentioned (or even the oppositions). He predicts an ugly fight. Of course he does, he will make sure of it.

I want my Canada back. Sadly too many Canadians don't even know it no longer exists as a true democracy.
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agate
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's more about the Canadian election:

http://tinyurl.com/5ss2s6

It's scary how easily lies take hold these days. Or maybe it's always been the way things are.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is Dion's tax plan? I haven't been following the news.

I have a certain sense of powerlessness. My riding ALWAYS votes liberal, whether I vote NDP or whatever else.
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cricket52



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Matt:

If you believe the Conservatives, Dion's tax plan means taxes on everything.

Otherwise his plan is to tax carbon emissions (with a few exceptions - like farmers). That means companies who refuse to comply will be taxed.

He also plans to leave families with less tax. However, the devil is in the details and the whole plan is online.

Our riding has always been liberal too. Any of our conservative types seem to be angry white men (sorry, but that's how I see them).

So far this week I have receive three 10%ers from Harper's crew. That would bring it up to at least 20. They are vulgar, insulting and full of lies. ie. Dion's Green Shift tax is not a tax on everything.

Harper will get his majority government again, which is his agenda. His plan is to destroy the liberal party altogether. Canadians are disillusioned and I think we need to prepare for a long line of minority governments.

Harper will not get my vote. Any PM and party that takes it's advice and training from the Republican party scares me.

BTW Matt - how the heck are you? Been thinking about you - are you still at school? feeling ok?
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Matt



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cricket52 wrote:
Any PM and party that takes it's advice and training from the Republican party scares me.


This statement, I totally agree with. The conservative parties rhetoric has always bothered me. Frankly, though, the liberal party has also always seemed quite dishonest to me, like all that stuff about Toronto's smog blowing in from Detroit rather than Hamilton, because Canada has such perfect environmental standards...puhlease. I hope more people wisen up and stop voting conservative just to put pressure on the liberal party, because the liberal party really does represent most people better than the concervative party.

Quote:

BTW Matt - how the heck are you? Been thinking about you - are you still at school? feeling ok?


Great. I have a hot date tomorrow. I was getting some work done on my dissertation and enjoying it. I am now just about to end another long break.
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agate
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Matt! How's life been treating you? Sounds as if you've been getting along well. How is your mother doing?

I tend to think of Canadian politics as respectable and dignified, maybe because you Canadian seem so much closer to the English "model." Then I read about ads where a puffin is shown defecating on one of the candidates, and I realize that Canada has its low moments too, just like its neighbor to the south:

http://tinyurl.com/5g282x
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Matt



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Life has been treating me very well, and my mother is doing incredibly...no evidence of the high grade returning...and the chances go down with time..so that is very good.

This is not the first time Harper has made a low-blow. He accused Martin of supporting child pornography once, right before an election, which he does not.

The conservatives got in power with their minority government because people were getting sick of corruption in the Liberal government. (People do not like Martin too much, I suspect).

Back when Quebec had a referendum to separate, the liberal party of Quebec asked for federal funding for an add campaign opposing separation. The liberal-majority government supported it. Most of the money was not spent. It ended up going to the liberal party of Canada for them to run adds in Federal elections. So, the liberal party essentially embezzled tax money to run extra adds for federal elections. There were a whole bunch of other things having to do with tax-exemptions. Maybe Cricket can explain it.

People wanted Martin out of office because of his involvement in corruption. Most of them do not like Harper. He panders to Canada's small Christian-right even though his party has advised not to do anything Christian right. That would KILL the conservative party of Canada...but they want to reach out to all the same people that the Republican party would reach out to.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah...another minority government it looks like.

http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/elections/polls.html

How are the two of you doing?
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cricket52



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt:

Check this out:

http://www.benedictionblogson.com/

Ha ha - the excuse from the Conservative party is that when the ad was accepted in the war room that the cursor was covering the poop.

If anyone believes that I have swampland in Nunavut....

Cadman, In and Out scheme, 10%er's (I've had THREE this week so far), Bernier, Income trusts and three years of constant campaigning.

Enough of this childish nonsense. It's time to get on with running this country.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geez. Trying to get the immature vote, I see. It is not too unlike the republicans trying to get the fear vote (Don't THINK about world politics and what is the right view, just vote for the party that says that it is TOUGH ON TERROR). They are targeting people who don't really care much about politics and world events.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I see, the conservative party has been up to no good.

http://scandalpedia.ca/Scandals.html

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/308446

Unfortunately for the liberal party, this stuff is not bad enough to make the conservative government sound anywhere near as corrupt and dishonest as the Liberal party was.

I do still consider the conservative party to be more honest than the liberal party. I tend to frown upon politicians who claim to be really pro-environment, when they are actually concealing information because they don't want Canadians to realize what companies are doing to the environment. I also tend to frown upon politicians who try to give tax-exemptions to their own businesses. The Cadman thing was VERY sleazy, it sounds. And, it appears that both parties have tried to embezzle money for ad-campaigns...but the liberals did it far worse.

But, maybe the liberals have learned their lesson? I suspect that they now know that journalists are going to treat them with far more suspicion than before. Journalists now know that people want to know the truth about things more than just a rosey picture about how they want things to be.

Here's the other thing that really pissed me off about the liberal party. Just when Chretien's government was screwing over some first nations groups, he ran romantic advertizements of the liberal party signing treaties and giving sweetgrass to first nations groups.

The liberal party has a history of really trying to tell people what they want to hear rather than the truth. Back then, a lot of Canadians would have liked to think that Canada is really fabulous to the first nations groups, and that Canada has really terrific environmental standanrds. On the other hand, few Canadians would like to suffer the consequences associated with seriously reducing polution, or any consequences whatsoever with the aboriginal groups. So, the liberal party knew that there were some people who just wanted to vote for someone who would lie to them. In this respect, I find the liberal party to be a bit like the republican party.

These days, the NDP and the liberal party are very close in policies on most issues. But, the liberal party has lost credibility to a lot of people. No one really knows to what extent the NDP really does or does not have it's act together, so a lot of people are torn as to whether to vote NDP or liberal, which ultimately ends up putting a conservative in power. The liberal party should know that, at this point, it needs to regain credibility, lose the flowery rhetoric that some people have gotten sick of, and start sounding more like the NDP.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack Layton's environmental plan.

http://www.ndp.ca/page/6798

Dion Appears to prefer the presumably much weaker Kyoto accord.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/liberals/dion.html

The NDP seems to have some pretty reasonably clear plans right now, and, on many of the pages they point out that Dion's liberal party has really failed to stand up against the conservatives.

http://www.ndp.ca/workingfamiliesfirst

This sort of criticism coming from the NDP might be very effective, since the liberal party is, I suspect, getting a reputation as a party with a patriotic left wing rhetoric, but a more right wing agenda.
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cricket52



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Matt:

Puffingate, Sparrow's fall - three apologies from the Conservatives in four days of official campaigning. One editorialist said Harper looked like the cat that swallowed the canary. Our real feathered friends deserve more respect.

Ryan Sparrows criticism and attack of a Canadian citizen (who lost his son in Afghanistan) is a low blow. That poor man accepted Sparrows apology, and suggested he should not have been suspended. Since when should an elderly individual take it upon his shoulders when a government official messes up? He should have told Mr. Sparrow to take a short walk of a Nova Scotian dock. But that's not how our (my) generation works. Mr. Sparrow is only concerned about his three figured salary. He continues to make a mockery of our country. This isn't the first time for him.

The Puffin incident was funny but pathetic - school yard bullies. The war room probably laughed the whole time the PM was 'apologizing'.

What bothers me isn't policy - it's attitude. What happened to respect for our parliament? Question period is a free for all. Where is the respect for constituents? All I see is contempt, negative ads, arrogance and a total disregard for the law - i.e. Cadman, Elections Canada. I'm sick of the slander, suing, in and out scheme, firing of public servants who disagree with President Harper.

Mr. Harper - we are known by the friends we keep. McKay, Bernier, Flaherty, Clement Doug Findlay to name a few?

He will get another minority probably. And the ugliness that is the Reform party will continue.

As for Canadians - you get what you vote for. God help us.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Puffingate...LMAO...did you make that up?
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cricket52



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

puffingate - sadly no, I don't have that much wit - it belongs to a national journalist.

However, in one day we saw sparrows fall, puffingate and a comment from national media that Harper looked like the cat that swallowed the canary, the feathers were sticking out of his mouth.

This country has gone to the birds. And I love birds, I have two awesome budgies :(

http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/2008/09/bird-of-day.html
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Matt



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that your blog? I like it.
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agate
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee, cricket, is it your blog?

The second bird looks like a puffin but I'm not sure what the first one is....
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Matt



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably a Sparrow. There is a politician with the last name of Sparrow who did something wrong recently.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, you're right--it's a sparrow.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cricket, the thing to remember about the minority government is the prime minister can't really exercize his power to veto. Unlike the American system, parliament can just call a vote of no confidence and just get rid of him at any time.
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agate
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we in the US had a system like that, Dubya could easily have been moved back to Crawford, TX, quite a while ago... cheers
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Matt



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. This is one of the biggest advantages that the Canadian Parliamentary system has over the system used in the US. It also makes it much easier for Canada to have multiple political parties rather than just two. And, any province can have it's own federal party to represent it's provincial interests.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having more political parties to choose from would be nice too.

cricket, in answer to your question about where Mr Soul (also known as Mr Natural here sometimes) is, he drops by from time to time.

Of course we'd be better off here if he dropped by more often, but people have other commitments besides this board, I'm sure. icon_smile
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cricket52



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Mr. Dion made a trip to the island where puffins hang out. He was like a little kid - very taken with them.

The dead sparrow :( is a take on Ryan Sparrow, a Reform party official who criticized the father of a Cnd soldier who died in Afghanistan. It's one thing to attack the opposition, it's another to attack a citizen. People were outraged and he has been suspended until the end of the election.

It's not my blog. My sibling has a blog, a retired journalist (at the national level) who has a genius IQ. BD links to many and found the pics at Dr. Dawg's blog. Actually I like reading blogs, bloggers are often way ahead of mainstream media, I would not want to write one. Too much work. :( BD is antisocial, has no common sense and avoids the real world. However, BD often ranks in the top 10 Canadian blogs.

I figuered Mr. Soul, who is not a fan of Mr. Bush would add much to this discussion. Bush and Harper read from the same manual.

Both of you have been fun to talk with. We have differences of opinion but there is no rancour. I like that.

Elections Canada called me last week to work. I turned them down. I have waited with great excited about this opportunity to work another elecgtion and I was received the call I realized I didn't even have the energy to get to the training let along do Target Revision. It sucks but I am too tired and in too much discomfort to keep up the pace. My friends will be working, I can live vicariously through them. :)

Take care all.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone wrote this over on facebook. I like it.
Quote:

Don't be fooled, Canada. Let's all just remember that they may call themselves the "Conservative" Party but this is in fact the Alliance/Reform Party with some new posters. These are the same crazies who were too scary to elect when they were some "Western fringe party" but seem to have played a massive trick on the Canadian public by changing their colours but not their policies. I for one am tired of Harper and Stockwell (Doris) Day and John Baird, et al embarrassing us on the international stage with their bad attitudes towards human rights and the environment.
Vote for them if you want but you will be voting ALLIANCE/REFORM, not Conservative.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephane Dion's green tax shift does actually sound like an improvement. This policy appears to be taken directly from the Green party.

http://www.thegreenshift.ca/default_e.aspx

http://www.greenparty.ca/en/policy/carbontaxplan

I do think that Jack Layton is absolutely correct that this is not enough.

The problem is that, in Canada, there is NO WAY to sue a company for poluting the environment too much, even if people in your neighborhood get cancer, or all the plants around your property die.

I do think that Canada will need to eventually implement something like the American Clean Air and Water Act.

But, the fuss being made by the conservative party is manipulative. They want steel workers to worry that they will lose their jobs. Those companies are not going to shut down..not until the world finds a replacement for steel.
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lady_express_44



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks gals and guy . . . I honestly don't have a clue what is going on in Federal Politics. I used to care, but gave up about 15 yrs ago.

Cherie
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lady_express_44



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to hear you are doing so well still, Matt. Are you still using Betaseron (is that what you were on?) or did you move over to Tysabri?

Cherie
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cricket52



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Matt:

Well, I have not been following politics for the past week and a half. Got a call Tuesday because the Elections Canada office was busy and although I can only work max 6 hours/day I am trying. No work next week, will be doing Registration (Revision) at the advanced polls.

Since I am on disability the gov't takes back half of what I make. So it's not about the money, its about the non-partisanship.

The Ritz affair is ugly. People ill and dying of listeriosis and he makes a crack like that? If you don't have a clue what I am talking about this is the agricultural minister discussing the illnesses and deaths. When he learned it there was a death in PEI he made a crack that he hoped it was the the liberal candidate (who he named). One of the officials on the conference call (the public servants have been working 24/7 said that it was like death from a thousand cuts. He made a crack that it was like death from a thousand cold cuts.

Harper will not fire him although the majority of Canadians want him gone. What is it about this party that thinks Cnds collectively are not worth respect? Ritz told the media to get out of his face.

Guess I am getting old. I find that behaviour appalling.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is appalling, cricket. The conservative party seems to harvest and protect baffoons. This isn't surprizing, because it seems to be the party that consistantly asks people to put their personal interests over the interests of the country. Like, how could free trade have ever been a good idea for Canada? Many conservatives no that a conservative vote is a selfish and basically immoral vote, so they don't mind the baffoons too much.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I might have to get rid of the anticonservative rheotoric that I spew, because I am now being pursued by a real conservative, of the old-school "let's talk about England and Scotland non-stop" variety. I will just have to be respectful, plud, the Brittish stuff is a bit cute any way.
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lady_express_44



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess we'll know in just a few short hours now.

I voted NDP (for the FIRST time, EVER!), even though I know that Liberal will win in my area.

Cherie
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Matt



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just voted NDP too.

The breakdown in my riding for the last election was:

50% liberal
25% conservative
20% NDP
5% Green

If Anita gets higher than 20%, that will mean that she (and her manager) did something right.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, cricket, your point about splitting the vote is well taken. The conservatives have more seats than the NDP and the Liberals combined even though more people voted for either the liberal party or the NDP, than there were people who voted conservative.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, just so that we know who has been reelected, thankfully with another minority government.

Quote:

Mr. Harper is a member of the Christian and Missionary Alliance, a conservative evangelical Christian group, and is generally considered to have socially conservative views on most issues. He opposes gay marriage and abortion and supports capital punishment. During the 2003 Iraq War his party was the only one in Canada that supported the United States and George W. Bush. In his past careers he has also been strongly critical of taxation, multiculturalism, constitutional concessions to Quebec, and socialized healthcare.

As Prime Minister, however, Harper has governed much more pragmatically. Canadian liberals often accuse Harper of being "right wing" and too similar to George W. Bush and American Republicans; analogies which are used to inflame anti-American sentiment in Canada. In the 2006 election Harper thus sought to distance himself from some of his strongly conservative positions of the past, usually by vowing to not pursue a radical social agenda while in office, but instead focus on certain economic prorities.

Regardless, as a minority Prime Minister whose caucus is still outnumbered by left-wing parties, Harper's ability to govern as a true conservative has been somewhat limited. He has, however, introduced reforms limiting Canadian gun control laws and may be able to implement a more conservative set of policies if his party wins re-election with a majority of the seats in the Canadian parliament.


Luckilly, the BQ as well as the liberals and the NDP will oppose any legislation that is either too pro-war, or at all social conservative...so, he is still unable to do anything in these areas.

But, what remains to be seen is what sort of stance the BQ will be willing to take on environmental issues. If the revised carbon tax that the NDP is striving for effects mainly ontario, then we might have a chance with the BQ, but time will tell.
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lady_express_44



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, Matt . . . that was what I was afraid of.
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Matt



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, hopefully the liberals will replace Dion with someone more popular. Hopefully, Canada will survive this minority government.
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cricket52



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys:

Sorry - been working the election and then went away for a few days.

Got home after counting my advance poll to a nasty shock - well maybe not for you lol. Northern Ontario is NDP except for my riding. Maybe it isn't so bad, the NDP and liberals tend to be good for resource based economies.

We need proportional representation, otherwise we will continue to have minority government over and over.

JMO. :) Take care!
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Mr Soul



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not as vocal on Canadian politics as maybe I should be (considering Michigan's proximity to Canada), but I do, as a result of that test, favor Jack Layton and the MDP. Sad to say, I don't even know who won, but I AM all in favor that America, SORELY needs Barack Obama.
We`ALL I think, need to return to "liberal" politics, in America's case we need to reconcile with the rest of the world after 8 years of dumbya have alienated us, so.
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